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Published Sep 17, 21
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Well, thank you significantly. I desire to give you all a break for a minute and count on Mr. Swartz. You've been extremely patient, the three of you. I appreciate that extremely much. Normally, we would certainly have had two panels, however we really did not understand exactly how the Us senate would be running today, so in an effort to ensure we got through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your statement as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda also punctures bank privacy and supplies a mechanism for us obtaining the details we require. There have been some shared legal support treaties that consist of stipulations relevant directly to sharing bank records or various other financial info.

That was a provision that was drafted as well as embraced in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for feasible requesting party asking for seek information as details whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for or in the case of the E.U., one of the requested member states. After that, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, must be followed up with a conventional mutual lawful aid treaty.

As well as with respect to Bermuda, our record of cooperation has actually been excellent. Our team believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of records, including bank documents, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this mutual lawful support treaty, which do need cooperation on the manufacturing of documents, will be sufficient to ensure that we get the documents we need for our monetary investigations and also various other investigations.

Some various other MLATs likewise enable immediate, non-written type demands to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it needs to remain in written form. Any type of reason that that arrangement was not included in this contract? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it holds true that the Common Lawful Help Treaty does call for demands in written type, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it sufficed that, in this instance, with respect to Bermuda, we would be able to obtain quick responses to our demands and also supply such reactions to Bermuda's requests, specifically since we have a technique already established that will certainly continue, our team believe, under the treaty of being able to communicate those demands through e-mail or with fax.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that because they desired to make certain that the requests were clear and in a much more official way. In the negotiations, it additionally became clear that they approved that such demand might be made by fax or by e-mail. So the genuine issue they were concerned regarding was not finding a quick methods to make a demand, but really simply taking oral demands off the table.

We're positive that we've got the methods in location that we can make urgent demands of them in a way that will certainly be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may include, in truth, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in technique, it's very uncommon that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of remarks on the financial institution documents problem? Mr. Johnson.

The distinction between having the ability to do an oral demand or having the ability to make use of one of these other very quick ways, we believe, is not consequential. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some concerns increased regarding the adequacy of Bermuda legislation with regard to forfeits of proceeds as well as instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Mutual Lawful Support Treaty in Short article 17 does obligate Bermuda to give aid to the United States in procedures associating to forfeiture of proceeds and agencies of criminal activity, to the extent allowed by the legislation of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of effective ask for restriction as well as forfeiture of possessions. Both circumstances were a success and we were able to get the funds. As a general matter, aid is available under the legislations of Bermuda, as well as I do think that is essential to tension, with respect to freezing, taking, and restraining properties, consisting of for matters associating with terrorism and also terrorism financing.

However it must be noted that loss assistance is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic regulation. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not forfeit a particular instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. Once again, that's restricted to instrumentalities in nondrug crime cases.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's a provision that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can refute cooperation in funding cases.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a way in which we are able to comply under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we think as well as we hope we still would be able to comply.

In reality, we have that experience with other countries that have placed similar interpretations on the shared legal aid responsibilities, as well as we've been able to exercise setups in a variety of situations that permit us to obtain evidence or go over whether the evidence is considerable enough to move forward with some sort of further actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I can simply add to that, among the reasons this treaty took as long it did to bargain and also conclude is because it was essential to us to ensure that there wasn't a specific restriction on help in capital cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz associated to you. Which method we assume that helps keep the concept that's important to us, that such teamwork must be offered, irrespective of the type of case. And we think this has actually also borne out with some various other countries, where despite having comparable worries about cooperation in funding cases, they have, for example, had the ability to provide aid to the nonpenalty phase of a test or one more celebration examination.

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Legislator Cardin. They do hold the right under this treaty to refute cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is seeking resources punishment? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide assistance if are in contrast to public law or their crucial interests, as well as they have told us that they translate that to permit them, in execution cases, to work out that.

I just desired to make it clear that they would not be a violation of the treaty. We understand their analysis, that if there was a situation pending here that we required their assistance, where, clearly, the prosecutors were looking for the death charge, Bermuda can decide not to comply under this treaty.

If I can say, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would require, because this would be a denial under Post 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be appointments with the United States, before that denial can go onward. And also I think that's a vital aspect of the settlement that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific arrangement is one of a set of collection under problems assistance may aid might after refuted, and, and also other amongst, points there must be need to as to whether assistance can aid given, subject to such conditions as the requested country asked for nationRegards

As well as I believe that would be valuable for us to have that details in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We 'd rejoice to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job right here, given that this contract was formerly accepted by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we accepted it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any kind of considerable changes in our investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you offered testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen given that last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can provide you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. As well as, also, Marriott Hotels is going in to assist in the nation's expanding friendliness industry. So I would say that, offered this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is crucial that the protections be managed for them.

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financiers. Legislator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise stated the truth that the United States is discovering other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe you mentioned another nation. I think we have 5 current reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us other countries that the United States has shown interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the personnel that I need to ask the question of whether the management still supports the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.



I think that completes the examining. I do appreciate your persistence with the committee as well as thank you extremely a lot for your testimony today.

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As set out listed below, we would such as to supply upgraded information on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I believe that would certainly be handy for us to have that details in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task below, since this agreement was formerly authorized by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we authorized it too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any significant modifications in our investment partnership with Rwanda because last November when you gave testament on this treaty? What we have actually seen because last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can offer you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's expanding friendliness sector. So I would certainly state that, offered this pattern of boosted investment, that it is essential that the securities be afforded for them.

investors. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You likewise mentioned the fact that the United States is checking out various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think you mentioned another country. I think we have five existing bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us other countries that the United States has shown passion in discussing treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the team that I ought to ask the inquiry of whether the management still sustains the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, considering that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that finishes the examining. I do value your persistence with the committee as well as thank you extremely much for your testament today.

Response. As established out listed below, we want to offer updated info on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the solutions given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress remain accurate. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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