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Published Oct 03, 21
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Well, thank you significantly. I want to give you all a break for a minute and resort to Mr. Swartz. You have actually been very patient, the 3 of you. I appreciate that significantly. Normally, we would have had 2 panels, yet we really did not understand exactly how the Us senate would be operating today, so in an effort to make certain we made it through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testimony and also your statements that the treaty with Bermuda likewise punctures financial institution secrecy and gives a system for us getting the info we need. There have actually been some common lawful help treaties which contain stipulations relevant straight to sharing financial institution documents or various other economic information.

Swartz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When it come to that certain problem, the board might be referring to the relatively brand-new arrangement that shows up, for instance, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Support Treaty, the recognition of financial institution documents arrangement. That was an arrangement that was drafted as well as adopted in the context of the E.U.

Under that stipulation, it's feasible for the requesting event to inquire as to whether an account exists in the requested country, or in the case of the E.U., among the requested participant states. However, thereafter, the request, if there is an identification of an account, need to be complied with up with a standard common lawful support treaty.

As well as when it come to Bermuda, our record of collaboration has actually been excellent. We think that the document we carry the production of documents, consisting of financial institution documents, is such that we are confident that the stipulations included in this common lawful aid treaty, which do need participation on the production of documents, will be adequate to guarantee that we acquire the documents we require for our economic investigations and also various other investigations.

Some other MLATs likewise permit for immediate, non-written form requests to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Shared Lawful Help Treaty does need requests in written kind, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it was adequate that, in this situation, with respect to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to get expeditious responses to our requests as well as likewise supply such responses to Bermuda's demands, especially since we have a technique currently established that will certainly proceed, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those demands via email or via fax.

Senator Cardin. So was this, essentially, a choice made by UNITED STATE arbitrators, that it was not needed, understanding how we can promptly get faxes as well as emails sent? Is that fair sufficient to state, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can assist on that one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that due to the fact that they desired to see to it that the requests were clear as well as in a more formal means. In the negotiations, it additionally came to be clear that they accepted that such request might be made by fax or by e-mail. The real issue they were concerned about was not finding a rapid ways to make a demand, yet actually just taking dental demands off the table.

So we're positive that we have actually got the ways in place that we can make immediate requests of them in a manner that will work. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may include, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in method, it's really rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any comments on the bank documents problem? Mr. Johnson.

The distinction in between having the ability to do a dental demand or having the ability to utilize among these various other extremely fast means, we think, is not substantial. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some issues raised about the adequacy of Bermuda law with regard to forfeits of earnings as well as agencies of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Obviously, the growth of loss law is an important as well as progressive issue. We have actually seen a variety of modifications throughout the years, including below in the United States. However the Shared Lawful Assistance Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide assistance to the United States in procedures connecting to forfeit of earnings as well as instrumentalities of crime, to the extent allowed by the regulation of Bermuda.

We have actually had two examples of successful ask for restraint and also forfeiture of possessions. Both instances were a success and also we had the ability to obtain the funds. As a general issue, assistance is readily available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do believe that's crucial to tension, when it come to cold, taking, as well as limiting possessions, including for matters connecting to terrorism and also terrorism financing.

Yet it should be kept in mind that forfeiture assistance is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic legislation. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not surrender a details instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. However once more, that's restricted to instrumentalities in nondrug offense instances.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda agreement, there's a provision that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny participation in resources situations.

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Are we prevented as a result of that or is there a means in which we have the ability to work together under this treaty, also in those instances? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we believe as well as we hope we still would certainly have the ability to comply. Bermuda suggested, and also has actually advised the United States, that it books the right to deny assistance in resources cases where the sentence consists of a possible death penalty, relying upon the-- in contrast to the crucial public law provision of Post 3 of the convention.

We have that experience with various other countries that have actually put comparable analyses on the mutual legal assistance responsibilities, as well as we've been able to function out plans in a number of situations that allow us to get evidence or go over whether the proof is considerable enough to go ahead with some kind of more steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I might just include in that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to discuss and wrap up is due to the fact that it was very important to us to make certain that there wasn't an express restriction on assistance in capital cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. As well as that method we believe that assists maintain the concept that is essential to us, that such teamwork ought to be offered, irrespective of the kind of case. And also we assume this has additionally borne out with a few other countries, where despite having similar problems about participation in capital cases, they have, for instance, had the ability to provide assistance to the nonpenalty phase of a test or another event examination.

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Legislator Cardin. But they do hold the right under this treaty to reject cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is seeking death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give support if contrast public plan or their crucial rate of interests, and also they have actually told us that they translate that to permit them, in capital punishment instances, to work out that.

I just desired to make it clear that they would certainly not be an infraction of the treaty. We recognize their interpretation, that if there was a case pending right here that we required their help, where, plainly, the district attorneys were seeking the fatality penalty, Bermuda can make a decision not to cooperate under this treaty.

Swartz. If I might state, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would need, since this would certainly be a denial under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there needed to be appointments with the United States, before that denial might go forward. And I believe that's an essential aspect of the arrangement that Mr.

Rather than having an explicit provision, this is one of a collection of conditions under which support may be refuted after assessment, as well as, amongst various other things, that there need to be factor to consider as to whether support can be offered, based on such conditions as the requested country regards needed. And also our experience in that regard has been that we frequently can discover proper guarantees to enable evidence to be produced, a minimum of for preliminary assessment of the value of proof in the situation generally.

And also I believe that would certainly be helpful for us to have that info in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We would certainly be glad to supply that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient task right here, given that this agreement was previously approved by this board. As I stated in my opening, we approved it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any kind of considerable changes in our investment partnership with Rwanda since last November when you provided statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen given that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a few instances.

Also, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a significant hotel in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to facilitate the nation's growing hospitality market. So I would certainly state that, given this pattern of raised investment, that it is necessary that the defenses be afforded for them.

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You also discussed the reality that the United States is discovering various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other nations that the United States has revealed interest in negotiating treaties?



I think that completes the questioning. We could have some added inquiries for the record. As you understand, the document continues to be open for 1 day, so you get a break. That's a pretty quick turn-around time for this board. But I do appreciate your persistence with the committee as well as thanks quite for your statement today.

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Response. As set out below, we would certainly such as to give upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the solutions supplied by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay exact. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I think that would certainly be valuable for us to have that information in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job here, considering that this arrangement was formerly authorized by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any significant adjustments in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered statement on this treaty? What we have seen because last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant resort in Kigali. And, also, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the nation's expanding hospitality sector. So I would claim that, provided this pattern of raised financial investment, that it is crucial that the defenses be afforded for them.

You additionally pointed out the reality that the United States is discovering various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 current reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has revealed interest in working out treaties?

I believe that finishes the examining. We could have some added inquiries for the record. As you know, the record remains open for 24 hrs, so you obtain a break. That's a quite rapid turn-around time for this committee. I do appreciate your patience with the board and thank you very much for your statement today.

As established out listed below, we would certainly like to provide updated details on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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