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Published Sep 29, 21
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I want to give you all a break for a minute and transform to Mr. Swartz. Usually, we would have had two panels, yet we didn't understand how the Us senate would be operating today, so in an effort to make certain we got through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your statement and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda additionally pierces financial institution secrecy and also gives a device for us obtaining the details we require. There have actually been some mutual lawful help treaties that have provisions associated straight to sharing financial institution records or various other financial information.

That was an arrangement that was drafted and embraced in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, arrangement's possible for feasible requesting party to seek information look for details whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for or in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member asked for. Thereafter, the demand, if there is an identification of an account, have to be complied with up with a standard common lawful aid treaty.

And with regard to Bermuda, our record of participation has been extremely excellent. We believe that the record we have on the manufacturing of documents, consisting of financial institution records, is such that we are positive that the provisions consisted of in this common lawful assistance treaty, which do need participation on the production of records, will suffice to make certain that we acquire the documents we need for our economic examinations and various other investigations.

Some other MLATs also permit for urgent, non-written kind demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Common Legal Help Treaty does call for demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it was enough that, in this case, with respect to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to get expeditious feedbacks to our requests as well as additionally offer such feedbacks to Bermuda's demands, particularly due to the fact that we have a technique already established that will certainly continue, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those demands through e-mail or via fax.

Legislator Cardin. Was this, basically, a decision made by UNITED STATE negotiators, that it was not required, knowing exactly how we can promptly get faxes and also emails sent out? Is that reasonable enough to say, or otherwise? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can aid on that particular one? Legislator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that since they wished to make certain that the requests were clear and also in a more official way. In the arrangements, it additionally became clear that they approved that such request can be made by fax or by e-mail. So the real problem they were worried concerning was not locating a quick methods to make a request, yet really just taking dental demands off the table.

So we're confident that we've obtained the methods in position that we can make immediate requests of them in a method that will work. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, in fact, while it is a benefit to be able to make oral requests, in practice, it's really rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. My primary issue is just, in urgent issues, that it's not postponed. And with modern communication, it appears to me that can most likely be dealt with. I'm much more concerned regarding bank records. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of discuss the financial institution records problem? Mr. Johnson. Once more, not particularly on the financial institution problem.

The distinction between being able to do an oral demand or having the ability to make use of one of these various other really fast ways, we assume, is not substantial. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some issues elevated regarding the adequacy of Bermuda regulation relative to loss of profits and instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Obviously, the development of forfeiture legislation is a vital and also dynamic matter. We've seen a number of changes over the program of the years, consisting of here in the United States. The Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide aid to the United States in process associating to forfeiture of proceeds as well as instrumentalities of criminal offense, to the extent permitted by the law of Bermuda.

We have actually had two examples of successful ask for restraint as well as forfeiture of possessions. Both instances were a success and we were able to get the funds. As a basic matter, support is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do think that is very important to stress, with regard to freezing, seizing, as well as restraining properties, consisting of for issues associating to terrorism and terrorism financing.

It ought to be kept in mind that loss assistance is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not forfeit a particular agency of nondrug offenses, since that power does not exist locally. Yet once more, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug offense cases.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda agreement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny participation in funding cases.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a method in which we are able to comply under this treaty, also in those instances? Mr. Chairman, we believe and we wish we still would certainly be able to comply.

We have that experience with various other countries that have actually placed similar interpretations on the common legal support responsibilities, and we have actually been able to work out plans in a number of situations that enable us to get proof or review whether the proof is substantial enough to go ahead with some kind of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might just contribute to that, among the reasons this treaty took as long it did to bargain and also end is due to the fact that it was essential to us to make certain that there wasn't an express constraint on aid in funding instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. Which way we think that helps keep the principle that's crucial to us, that such collaboration must be available, irrespective of the sort of instance. As well as we believe this has actually also substantiated with a few other countries, where despite having comparable issues concerning teamwork in resources instances, they have, for example, had the ability to give aid to the nonpenalty stage of a trial or one more celebration examination.

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Senator Cardin. Yet they do hold the right under this treaty to deny collaboration where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give assistance in cases that are contrary to public policy or their vital passions, and they have actually told us that they translate that to allow them, in fatality fine instances, to exercise that.

I just desired to make it clear that they would certainly not be a violation of the treaty. We understand their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending right here that we required their aid, where, clearly, the prosecutors were looking for the fatality fine, Bermuda can determine not to work together under this treaty.

Swartz. If I could say, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would certainly need, since this would be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that initially there needed to be assessments with the United States, before that denial could move forward. And I assume that's an important aspect of the arrangement that Mr.

Instead of having an explicit provision, this is among a collection of problems under which help might be rejected after assessment, as well as, to name a few things, that there should be factor to consider regarding whether help can be given, subject to such conditions as the asked for nation deems essential. And also our experience because regard has been that we frequently can locate ideal guarantees to permit evidence to be produced, at least for preliminary evaluation of the relevance of proof in the event in general.

As well as I believe that would be useful for us to have that info in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We 'd rejoice to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job here, given that this contract was formerly approved by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we authorized it too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any kind of substantial modifications in our investment partnership with Rwanda since last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen considering that last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a couple of examples.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a major resort in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the country's expanding hospitality sector. I would certainly state that, offered this pattern of enhanced financial investment, that it is important that the protections be managed for them.

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financiers. Legislator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise discussed the reality that the United States is discovering other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated another country. I think we have five current reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other nations that the United States has shown rate of interest in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thanks. I've been told by the personnel that I should ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We definitely do. Legislator Cardin.

I believe that completes the examining. I do appreciate your persistence with the committee as well as thank you really much for your testament today.

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Solution. As laid out below, we want to give updated information on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the responses supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress remain precise. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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And I assume that would certainly be helpful for us to have that details in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest task right here, considering that this contract was previously approved by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any kind of considerable changes in our investment relationship with Rwanda considering that last November when you provided testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen since last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a few instances.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a major resort in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to promote the nation's expanding hospitality market. I would certainly say that, offered this pattern of increased investment, that it is essential that the protections be managed for them.

capitalists. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You also mentioned the truth that the United States is exploring other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you pointed out another nation. I assume we have 5 existing reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us other countries that the United States has revealed interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I've been told by the personnel that I should ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.

I believe that finishes the questioning. I do value your patience with the board and also thank you really much for your testament today.

As set out listed below, we would such as to give updated details on reported UNITED STATE investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).